1) You seem to contradict yourself when say spoken words disappear forever once they're uttered. Not accurate. You say later that words can be drawn on at will to use again. This is accurate.
2) You said there was no way to determine how many words a person knows. There is a way, it's called a Vocabulary Size Test.
I used it in my PhD when I explored the process of vocabulary learning (2013). I wanted to find evidence that it is real and that everyone uses it. I used a psycholinguistic approach, and some other approaches, a combination of perspectives to gain insights into the process a person goes through when they learn a word (or use one).
The average pre-university student uses around 9,000 words, while the teacher/lecturer would use between 10,000 and 15,000 words. These levels of vocabulary contains both high-frequency words and low-frequency words. High-frequency words are used every day, while low-frequency words are not used every day e.g., academic, scientific, medical.
"It’s funny how, when I first thought about this spoken words fantasy, I was focused on the words that I had heard from others in the past, in particular circumstances. And so I thought that it would be nice to hear again things I hadn’t caught properly, or things I didn’t know how to respond to, or things I needed to hear multiple times to boost my confidence or better understand something."
The process of vocabulary learning is complex, and everyone is different; have differing experiences linked to word learning. Hence the large range of strategies used to learn new words or anything for that matter; (Nation, 2009) called it the difference between 'item knowledge' and 'system knowledge'.
Item knowledge concerns the 'orthographic', the word form or forms e.g., 'dog', 'school', 'city', and squeeze. System knowledge concerns the various features of a word, e.g., phonological, orthographic, and semantic aspects of the word, including the words relationship to other words in a person's mental lexicon.
Word forms - spoken, written, and word parts (base, affixes). Word meaning: connecting form and meaning - concept, referents, associations. Word use: grammatical functions, collocations, and constraints. This is why people will vary in the knowledge and/or experience associated with learning a word and what they already know.
And why there is a process and that the process will vary between and among people. But what is spoken is already known and resides in the brain in the form of representations (concept, referents, associations). When a person uses a word - they couldn't use a word they don't know - they're experience of it may differ from the next person, sometimes wildly, and they will also draw on all the semantic and connotative aspects of the word e.g., a words sense, that will be the first listed aspect of the word in a dictionary.
I guess what I am saying with all this is that uttered words do not disappear forever; they live in the brain. But you're right when you say is difficult if not impossible recall what some said to when a large amount of time has elapsed since first hearing the words. And that has to do with the brain's limitations. The fact that a person can create an utterance and deliver it, highlights its generative nature, but it doesn't let us remember an utterance once it is used.
Remembering utterances would require a complex set of strategies use to remember it. The words in the utterance are all there in your brain along with the knowledge of a word, which means people don't speak in sentences, or phrases, etc., requires the creative aspect to construct them. Baring neurological issues and/or disease.
Recalling words and constructing utterances is a breeze compared remembering and recalling what someone said. And why the majority of people use a complex social strategy like asking the speaker to repeat what they said (not just if the listener didn't understand it the first time) to understand the meaning of the utterance (not the actual words). That kind of negotiation goes on all the time.
Sadly, not much research exits on why people can't remember what someone said (even though the words that made up the utterance are in the listener's brain, or not); the research tends to focus on how, why, when, where, and who, of the utterance, or diseases like Alzheimer's. There's also a lot of research on forgetting. Hypothetically, a person might use a complex set of strategies, which may result in partial remembrance; for at least one aspect of the task, like remembering the when, where, and who of the utterance. Involve all the senses or one. Remembering snippets, associations may result in reconstructing the utterance.
Sounds like hard work, right? Of course, there are a few assumptions being made. But hypothesis testing is something we do every day not just on special occasions. Thanks for your post, it gave me inspiration to explore the topic again.
Thank you for your detailed insights and clarification. It's fascinating to hear about the Vocabulary Size Test and your extensive research on vocabulary learning and word use. You've highlighted the complexity of language acquisition and the nuanced differences in how individuals process and remember words and utterances. The brain's generative nature is indeed remarkable, and it's intriguing how spoken words become part of our mental lexicon. Your perspective adds depth to the discussion on the endurance of spoken words and the challenges of recalling them accurately. I'm glad this topic inspired you to revisit it, and your input is greatly appreciated!
[As for the two points you state up above, especially the first one: mine is a fantasy, and fantasies can be inaccurate, by definition. This is not a scientific piece on what happens to words once they're uttered.]
I love this ethereal musing on the life of words beyond their temporary utterance. Maybe spoken words are like a massive tree blowing in the wind, silence sometimes prevails, and depending on the weather there can be rustling, howling, creaking, bird song, or the calamity of an occasional thunder strike. But with all that coming and going of noise, the roots are always there. There is an underground force of tenacious residence that never falters or goes away. For myself I don't imagine it's the words that endure, but the being who has spoken them. Words that come from Being are an enduring echo of that essence. And then roots between these trees of being are connected. I often have the sense that there are layers of connection between sentient beings that we are always at the effect of but just can't "see" with the tangible senses. Like this week I have been thinking a lot about the intersection of writing and speaking, and then today our friend Rik wrote about the same subject, and now your essay about recorded and spoken words.
Love this comment, Rick. So interesting and profound. And I'm glad you resonated with the idea of words having a lasting presence beyond their utterance. Your analogy of spoken words being like a tree in the wind, with roots that never falter, beautifully captures the enduring essence of words and the connections between beings. It's fascinating how our thoughts and discussions often intersect, revealing the profound interconnectedness of our shared experiences and ideas. Thank you for sharing this. :)
Great traveling with you to these spoken and unspoken worlds of words Silvio. Made me think both of live concerts, how they're uniquely experienced by being there, even if recorded, and the magic of that. And also, tying with your last essay about eternal recurrence, how important it is everything we say, more so if we're "doomed" to repeat it forever.
I also wish I could vividly remember some of what was said in specific memories, and there's also beauty in kind of making it up as we please.
Thank you, Oscar! Absolutely, the uniqueness of live experiences and the significance of our spoken words, especially in the context of eternal recurrence, are thought-provoking. Memories, whether vivid or recreated, hold their own charm. Thanks for sharing your reflections!
I’d love to travel to this fantastical word world of yours, especially when I can’t think of the words to speak or write. But you, my friend, seem to always write the perfect words
Hi. Just a clarification on your essay.
1) You seem to contradict yourself when say spoken words disappear forever once they're uttered. Not accurate. You say later that words can be drawn on at will to use again. This is accurate.
2) You said there was no way to determine how many words a person knows. There is a way, it's called a Vocabulary Size Test.
Vocabulary Size Test was first conceived by I.S.P. Nation (2009,https://docs.google.com/document/d/1brS_lQRLzVx11-l352qgCD8nD6c_nKgxdMMZ66MEIXI/edit?pli=1).
I used it in my PhD when I explored the process of vocabulary learning (2013). I wanted to find evidence that it is real and that everyone uses it. I used a psycholinguistic approach, and some other approaches, a combination of perspectives to gain insights into the process a person goes through when they learn a word (or use one).
The average pre-university student uses around 9,000 words, while the teacher/lecturer would use between 10,000 and 15,000 words. These levels of vocabulary contains both high-frequency words and low-frequency words. High-frequency words are used every day, while low-frequency words are not used every day e.g., academic, scientific, medical.
"It’s funny how, when I first thought about this spoken words fantasy, I was focused on the words that I had heard from others in the past, in particular circumstances. And so I thought that it would be nice to hear again things I hadn’t caught properly, or things I didn’t know how to respond to, or things I needed to hear multiple times to boost my confidence or better understand something."
The process of vocabulary learning is complex, and everyone is different; have differing experiences linked to word learning. Hence the large range of strategies used to learn new words or anything for that matter; (Nation, 2009) called it the difference between 'item knowledge' and 'system knowledge'.
Item knowledge concerns the 'orthographic', the word form or forms e.g., 'dog', 'school', 'city', and squeeze. System knowledge concerns the various features of a word, e.g., phonological, orthographic, and semantic aspects of the word, including the words relationship to other words in a person's mental lexicon.
Word forms - spoken, written, and word parts (base, affixes). Word meaning: connecting form and meaning - concept, referents, associations. Word use: grammatical functions, collocations, and constraints. This is why people will vary in the knowledge and/or experience associated with learning a word and what they already know.
And why there is a process and that the process will vary between and among people. But what is spoken is already known and resides in the brain in the form of representations (concept, referents, associations). When a person uses a word - they couldn't use a word they don't know - they're experience of it may differ from the next person, sometimes wildly, and they will also draw on all the semantic and connotative aspects of the word e.g., a words sense, that will be the first listed aspect of the word in a dictionary.
I guess what I am saying with all this is that uttered words do not disappear forever; they live in the brain. But you're right when you say is difficult if not impossible recall what some said to when a large amount of time has elapsed since first hearing the words. And that has to do with the brain's limitations. The fact that a person can create an utterance and deliver it, highlights its generative nature, but it doesn't let us remember an utterance once it is used.
Remembering utterances would require a complex set of strategies use to remember it. The words in the utterance are all there in your brain along with the knowledge of a word, which means people don't speak in sentences, or phrases, etc., requires the creative aspect to construct them. Baring neurological issues and/or disease.
Recalling words and constructing utterances is a breeze compared remembering and recalling what someone said. And why the majority of people use a complex social strategy like asking the speaker to repeat what they said (not just if the listener didn't understand it the first time) to understand the meaning of the utterance (not the actual words). That kind of negotiation goes on all the time.
Sadly, not much research exits on why people can't remember what someone said (even though the words that made up the utterance are in the listener's brain, or not); the research tends to focus on how, why, when, where, and who, of the utterance, or diseases like Alzheimer's. There's also a lot of research on forgetting. Hypothetically, a person might use a complex set of strategies, which may result in partial remembrance; for at least one aspect of the task, like remembering the when, where, and who of the utterance. Involve all the senses or one. Remembering snippets, associations may result in reconstructing the utterance.
Sounds like hard work, right? Of course, there are a few assumptions being made. But hypothesis testing is something we do every day not just on special occasions. Thanks for your post, it gave me inspiration to explore the topic again.
Thank you for your detailed insights and clarification. It's fascinating to hear about the Vocabulary Size Test and your extensive research on vocabulary learning and word use. You've highlighted the complexity of language acquisition and the nuanced differences in how individuals process and remember words and utterances. The brain's generative nature is indeed remarkable, and it's intriguing how spoken words become part of our mental lexicon. Your perspective adds depth to the discussion on the endurance of spoken words and the challenges of recalling them accurately. I'm glad this topic inspired you to revisit it, and your input is greatly appreciated!
[As for the two points you state up above, especially the first one: mine is a fantasy, and fantasies can be inaccurate, by definition. This is not a scientific piece on what happens to words once they're uttered.]
I love this ethereal musing on the life of words beyond their temporary utterance. Maybe spoken words are like a massive tree blowing in the wind, silence sometimes prevails, and depending on the weather there can be rustling, howling, creaking, bird song, or the calamity of an occasional thunder strike. But with all that coming and going of noise, the roots are always there. There is an underground force of tenacious residence that never falters or goes away. For myself I don't imagine it's the words that endure, but the being who has spoken them. Words that come from Being are an enduring echo of that essence. And then roots between these trees of being are connected. I often have the sense that there are layers of connection between sentient beings that we are always at the effect of but just can't "see" with the tangible senses. Like this week I have been thinking a lot about the intersection of writing and speaking, and then today our friend Rik wrote about the same subject, and now your essay about recorded and spoken words.
Love this comment, Rick. So interesting and profound. And I'm glad you resonated with the idea of words having a lasting presence beyond their utterance. Your analogy of spoken words being like a tree in the wind, with roots that never falter, beautifully captures the enduring essence of words and the connections between beings. It's fascinating how our thoughts and discussions often intersect, revealing the profound interconnectedness of our shared experiences and ideas. Thank you for sharing this. :)
Just a beautiful fantasy. That would be the type of space travel I would sign up for!
Thank you so much! :)
Great traveling with you to these spoken and unspoken worlds of words Silvio. Made me think both of live concerts, how they're uniquely experienced by being there, even if recorded, and the magic of that. And also, tying with your last essay about eternal recurrence, how important it is everything we say, more so if we're "doomed" to repeat it forever.
I also wish I could vividly remember some of what was said in specific memories, and there's also beauty in kind of making it up as we please.
Thank you, Oscar! Absolutely, the uniqueness of live experiences and the significance of our spoken words, especially in the context of eternal recurrence, are thought-provoking. Memories, whether vivid or recreated, hold their own charm. Thanks for sharing your reflections!
The cemetery of spoken words sounds like he place I'd like to go and die. Thank you for the fun, soft, and touching visual.
Thank you, Yehudis! So glad you liked this.
I’d love to travel to this fantastical word world of yours, especially when I can’t think of the words to speak or write. But you, my friend, seem to always write the perfect words
Thank you, Rachael. So glad you like to read these words and you know it's reciprocal. :)